Messenger Tactics And Why You Can’t Use AI… Yet – Ethan Sigmon – FHR #203

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Messenger Tactics And Why You Can’t Use AI… Yet – Ethan Sigmon – FHR #203

Clickfunnels™ Messenger Tactics: Why You Can’t Use AI

Clickfunnels™ Messenger Tactics: Founder of Opesta a Facebook Messenging platform, Ethan Sigmon has years of experience running Facebook ads for people like John Lee Dumas and SumoMe. He is now leading the way on how to use Messenger to connect with your customers better than AI can. He reveals the tactics and tools he is using to understand and work with his clients and prospects through “behavioral segmentation”.

Clickfunnels™ Messenger Tactics: Funnel hacker radio podcast

welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales dominate their markets and how you can get those same results here is your host Dave Woodward hey everybody welcome back to form Hawker radio I’m your host Dave Woodward and you guys are in for an experience it’s gonna be a ton of fun I want to bring on right now Ethan Sigmund who is the founder of a Pesta ethan welcome to the show hey David good to be here with you I’m excited yeah I saw you last week hanging out there in San Diego TNC and specs of time on boats and everything else we know it’s always a good experience but basically make sure people understand a little bit about you you’re basically the founder of a pest

also created social insight insight I oh and you’ve ran a huge facebook ad agency doing hundreds of thousands of dollars in facebook ads for people like John Lee Dumas and sumo me so you got a ton of experience in this whole Facebook realm and most importantly right now with no pest you guys are just diving in super hard in this whole bot technology so I really want kind of dive into this so our audience understands how they can actually use BOTS why they’re so important their to their community and more importantly as far as really generating a long-term value to the client yeah absolutely absolutely we’re really excited and it’s you know it’s something that I think is good to talk about because Russell himself is using or has been using messenger you know with you guys over there at clickfunnels for a long time I think he was one of the first adopters of it you know sending out those broadcasts and things like that and so it’s probably something that your audience is seeing and things like that and maybe don’t know what how to get started with it or you know the best way to

get started with it and everything else and so I think it’ll be a fun conversation to have I think that’s great I know it’s a it’s definitely a large part of what we do currently and it’s become even larger over the next month to six months as we roll out a whole bunch of different features and things related to this whole idea as far as Facebook messengers so if you don’t mind let’s cut I spoke to Ethan Andrew Warner on a while back we talked about these bot academies and the stuff he was doing and so a lot of our users are a little bit familiar with it but if you don’t mind help people understand it real briefly as far as why why is messenger getting so much attention right now yes Oh messenger is getting a lot of attention right now cuz a little over a year ago like a year and a half ago Facebook basically opened up their API which is kind of their back-end to access and be able to send messages to users and things like that to the public and said hey if you follow these rules will allow you to send messages and content to people using the messenger and and we want to create these things called chat BOTS and so when it first launched there was a ton of buzz around it because it was something brand-new obviously a huge new ocean and and there was a lot of people thinking that you know the AI was going to take over where you’re gonna be able to program these chat BOTS that just kind of interacted and did all your customer support for you or this that or the other and I think we all kind of saw this wave of chat BOTS got really really hyped

Clickfunnels™ Messenger Tactics: What is your business limitation?

up and everybody is kind of jumping on them and then there was this fall-off as people started to realize some of the limitations of you know chat BOTS and the facebook Messenger and things like that and so that’s kind of what we’re trying to help people understand is how it all works how you can actually you know send messages to people if you don’t know how to code if you don’t know how to use Facebook’s API yourself how you can actually do it in a way where people have a good experience and you know everything feels fluid and and makes sense and you know what that means from a marketing standpoint because you know I’m a big quick funnels user and you know we kind of follow that same terminology that Russell does and that’s that we’re direct marketers really and and so if we can you know generate leads or make sales that’s really the main thing that we care about and measure and there’s some ways that you have to really you know well there’s some things that you have to pay attention to with the Facebook messenger while you try to do that to make sure that you don’t get in trouble with Facebook and so there’s kind of all let’s go away I know the part that’s most important and you’re not we’re talking about this just the other night and that is the value of the relationship and it needs to be as authentic as possible through a chat bot through Facebook Messenger what are some things

people first of all should make sure that don’t do yeah some of the things that you should make sure that you don’t do or right now everybody wanted to get into this AI part of chat BOTS okay I’m gonna program all these responses and then we’re gonna there’s this technology out here that’s gonna be able to respond and you know interact for me what we’re finding now is that technology’s just not quite where it needs to be yet in order for that to be really really effective and so some people get themselves into trouble by trying to do everything through just AI and trying to set everything up in there and then what happens is it creates a bad user experience for people kind of interacting with you on messenger because maybe they ask a question that you don’t have a response programmed for and or you know the AI sends some you know random out of context response things like that because AI quite kind can’t quite pick up on you know social cues or context as well as you know you or me can so that would be one of the big don’ts is hey don’t just go full AI the technology is not there yet maybe one day it will be but until then I recommend that you treated like conversational email marketing so look at what you’re doing with your email marketing what you have the sequences you have set up in action etics or you know whatever email marketing service you’re using and try and create a little bit try and break those down into little smaller conversational flows and mimic that with your messenger marketing so that it kind of takes on that

same relationship and and give people optional responses rather than keeping things so open-ended I love that so are most of your questions you’re asking questions to people is it primarily yes and no or data type of things that they’re entering in that you can respond quickly to yeah I mean they can be yes or no and then the other kind of thing that we recommend is asking segmenting questions right so if you listen to anybody like Ryan Levesque or you know fall anybody who does kind of segment a segmentation email marketing you know the ask method there you kind of can survey your your you users and things like that and you kind of leave you take open any questions but give specific examples so for example to put it in context you know if I was maybe launching a pesto right we might have you opt into a messenger sequence and then the first question we might ask you is hey tell us a little bit more about your business what type of products do you sell do you sell and then we could give you know five or six predefined answers they could answer you know it could be physical products digital products coaching / consulting you know ecommerce and then maybe other or something like that and so it’s not just a yes/no sometimes you

Clickfunnels™ Messenger Tactics: Start buidling your business profile

will do yes/no but you really want to just be able to segment people down so you can kind of start to build a profile for somebody and tailor your messaging a little bit based off of you know where they are in their business and and you know who they are I love that I know for us list segmentation as people start looking at things we’re you know they’ve been following this podcast or Russell’s podcasts or anything else that’s out there from us they’re hearing a lot about what we referred to as this whole mother funnel thing that we’re creating where it’s all list segmentation they first come in and we’re actually almost setting up a barrier to entry inside of into clickfunnels we want to know first who they are so that we can better serve them and I know it’s what you guys have done in a Pesta super super well is really helping people segment quickly so that you can then respond in a way that actually feels much more authentic because you know who they are if it’s a totally different conversation if you’re dealing with someone who’s focused on e-commerce versus a person who’s focused more on a consulting type of coaching program exactly exactly yeah I think both with the Oh pesto software and with the clickfunnels software we hit the same problem right it’s like it’s something that’s so powerful that it can help almost every you know every business out there can benefit from it right but the way that every business implements it is a little different and so if you can know what business they’re in or what their end goal is or things like that you can show them the things that are most important to them right way to get them there and that’s that can be generally true for almost every industry

you know if you’re if you own a gym and your goal is to help people you know start working out more you know I’m I have a different goal when I go to the gym than my wife has my goal may be that I’m trying to bulk or do these things where my wife school may be that she’s trying to slim down or lose a set amount of weight or you know tone her legs or something like that and so when you can ask and kind of figure out what your clients goals are or you know your prospects desires are that’s when you can get really targeted in your marketing I love that I know that you come from in the direct response marketing days as well and spending that kind of time in there these are the things we would have loved been able to have years ago where you actually could target where before we have to have spent a whole bunch of money buying those targeted lists and then still trying to segment based on that kind of stuff so as you’re taking a look at people who are using a Pesta and who are out there segmenting what are some of the what are some of the things that people are are segmenting for the most yeah so there’s two types of segmentation that you can do you know there’s the first type that we talked about where you kind of ask questions and you get responses from them and a lot of people have been doing that in BOTS already that was one of the big you know beneficial factors of bots you could do that with almost every bot software out there currently the other big type of segmentation that you know you guys have created abilities to do and stuff with action etics that’s really powerful it’s called behavioral segmentation and so what that means is you know besides telling you what my desires are and

actually giving you that physical input my actions also can segment me into different buckets so for example I know from listening to your gut this podcast in Russell’s podcast and stuff in clickfunnels case you guys know that somebody who comes in as a cook phonos user from this specific front-end funnel has a lower churn rate than somebody that comes in from this other you know front-end funnel and you and so that’s a behavioral segmentation the behaviors they purchased may be this front-end product rather than this other front-end product right and so the way that you you take that data traditionally is you have their email address you kind of associated with their purchases and styling you know okay this person probably has a higher lifetime value as a customer than this other person and so the big problem that we’ve had and the big disconnect that I saw with bots was there was no way to do behavioral segmentation all of your tracking and segmentation was just siloed into the Facebook messenger with you know existing platforms out there and so that’s what we’ve really tried to create with though passes we’ve created a pixel that you can place on any website or any page that you have and so then you can start to collect data on once somebody becomes a subscriber what pages they visit what products of yours they’ve purchased all those things so then inside of a Pesta you can create you

Clickfunnels™ Messenger Tactics: Find out your best business strategy

know actions or triggers based off of certain behavioral things that they’ve done as well and so you know the message that you send to somebody who takes your you know expertise the expert secrets book and then goes through is probably gonna be a little bit different different than the messaging who’s somebody from somebody who opted into the perfect webinar script you know what I mean and so you’re also looking at as far as behavior as far as like cart abandonment exactly so are then and they come through and they don’t buy you now can follow up through a bot which I think is just fantastic it’s I think again you’re in the you play in this world every single day but what are some of the some of the behaviors that that opacity and a messenger type of app can really help a clickfunnels user or anyone else with that matter actually get a better ROI or a larger lifetime value out of obviously karna banham it’s gonna be one of them what are some the other things yeah another huge one is pertaining to webinars you know clickfunnels was built on the back of webinars and I know a lot of people are have built their businesses from clip funnels on the back of webinars and a big thing with webinars is you know you want to message someone differently based on if they actually attended your webinar worth they they just opted in and never attended your webinar right or maybe they were thinking

about opting in and then didn’t finish the opt-in so those are kind of three behavioral segments that you could have potentially right there in like a webinar funnel per se and you could then tailor the messaging inside of a Pesta to line up with the messaging that you would send through your emails to you know maybe tell somebody about the offer they heard about on the webinar a little bit more or to not even mention your offer yet because you know they missed the webinar and now your goal is just to try and get them to watch the replay or to register for another time right and so that way it actually ends up creating a better prospect experience as well because then you don’t feel like you’re getting spammed or hit by you know information or messages that don’t pertain to you right so it benefits you as kind of a business owner in the sense that you’re you’re getting more targeted messaging so then you’re getting higher conversion rates and it also benefits those that you’re marketing to because then they’re not feeling like they’re getting expand so that’s one just one example that’s cool tell me real quick because I’ve seen I’m stalking Mike doing about this the other day with his he’s rolling out a new product one of things he was looking at was split testing whether or not he should have email as an opt-in or messenger or both have you have you seen any results from from forcing one of the other or split testing both of them yeah so we’ve played we’ve played with both and there’s tons of pluses and minuses to both that you like really get into the technical side of it right and up until recently it was really difficult you had to choose you had to choose email or you had to

Clickfunnels™ Messenger Tactics: Use the right social media flatform

choose messenger first right and then it was like okay well if you take email first once they’re on the email let’s try and get them to opt into the messenger if you choose messenger first you know try and get them to give you an email address so you have both I would I would always recommend your end goal is that you want to have both because I’m I’m a big believer that it’s not gonna come down to ditching email and using messenger only and it’s it’s it’s gonna come down to who has used them both together the in the best fashion and really made it a congruent system where you’re communicating on all those channels so I kind of would recommend doing a flow where you can add basically a scent to messenger what they call checkbox underneath any email opt-in form that you have and it can opt them in at the same time as they opt in with their email address and they can they can choose to opt in with messenger or not so it’s kind of like a checkbox so right now one of the things that you have in clickfunnels when you build a form as you can say can add an SMS element right and when you do a little check box appears if they click the check box a whole drop down comes down where they could put in their phone number of things like that you can make it required you can make it so it’s not required it’s just totally up to you the check the send a messenger checkbox is is very similar to that it’s just a little check box that says send a messenger if they click it they’ll be opted into your messenger list when the page submits if they don’t they won’t be so

that’s kind of what I recommend right now you can make it required what we have seen if you make it fully required is your conversion rate usually goes down a little bit so let’s say your pages you know converting 30% we’ve usually seen them drop by you know about five ish percent or so so you’re down to 25% the other side of the flip side of that coin though is you have both their email address and them as a messenger subscriber so your chances of reaching them are much much higher so for every person it’s a little bit different but I recommend trying to really use that checkbox trigger and just putting it on all your clickfunnels pages where it makes sense to collect both and if you’re not doing that and your email follow-ups trying to get them to get become a messenger subscriber but we’re playing around with a ton of new different flows on that here in the next two weeks so I’ll have a big big slew of data here to give you even more answers on it soon but those are kind of our initial findings that we’ve seen so far that’s awesome well tell me as is we kind of get close to wrapping things up here what are some of the other things you want to make sure that people hear about or know about with regard to either BOTS or o Pesta

yeah I think the the biggest thing that we’re trying to tell people is that you know right now everybody refers to them as chatbots and our honest my honest opinion is chatbots are a terrible way to market and the reason is is because like we talked about in the very beginning they use they try to use a lot of AI they sometimes if they aren’t done right they just feel like the pre-recorded you know customer support recording you get when you call your bank that says press one to get to finance to talk to a banker or whatnot and so what I always tell people is don’t create a chatbot look at this as messenger marketing automation look at what you’re doing with your email marketing and think how can i replicate that in a similar fashion with but but deliver inside the facebook messenger and make it more of a conversation so that’s that’s the biggest mind shift that we’re trying to help people realize and we’ve seen as we’ve taken and done that it’s made huge huge results one of the big ones that we did that with is you know John Lee Dumas he’s a good friend he’s one of our previous clients he jumped on chatbots right away when they came out and he had this bot and Facebook actually released this thing when you created BOTS that people could rate your BOTS and they could say five stars two stars whatever it is right and I looked at his reviews on on his bots one day and he had like

Clickfunnels™ Messenger Tactics: Show possitive people comments to your site

less than a two-star review on it and all the comments were like this is too long it you know it doesn’t feel conversational all these things right and it’s because it was set up as a traditional chat bot where it was more of like a you know a pre-recorded customer service recording and so we went in we kind of revamped it we said hey look you’re trying to deliver somebody a goals course how are you doing this with email right now let’s make it similar let’s just keep it short keep it simple deliver what they want and we match it up and the reviews just skyrocketed he got way better results the people going through were happy and it’s not like we did anything crazy we just revisited how we were looking at creating this experience inside the messenger and just making it similar to the things that you’re already doing I love that again and I always look at this is you really have to be building a little a very long term relationship with with these people and if you come across either whether it’s spammy and your email or non conversational in your thoughts or your messenger I’m gonna have to it so I’m going to change from bottom you’re gonna correct yeah Katie through messenger it’s important basically that you as you’re doing it

that you realize you’re creating this relationship with your clients and as you spend that time inside of messenger the better you get as far as being conversational the more authentic it comes across and more importantly the the more data and the segmentation as well as better client experience your users are gonna have as well so I think it’s it’s a huge win-win I thoroughly appreciate all of your experience if someone wants to get more information from you or connect with you what’s the easiest way of doing that you do yeah the best way to do that is to actually just hop in to Oh pesto comm we have a live chat there believe it or not a lot of times I’ll answer some support tickets and things like that so if you even just ping support there and and say hey they can probably push in my way or you can always find me on Facebook as well just Ethan Sigmund I’m sure you’ll be able to pull me up on Facebook but those are the easiest ways to to catch me and just ping me through messenger Pesta ope sta comm check it out again a lot of the whole idea as far as pixels and stuff that

you guys have done is fantastic I think that’s one of the main new technologies you guys can have brought into this whole messenger thing is really being able to gather behavioral data from people so that your messages actually become much more authentic and real so congratulations on all your success and again check out a pest calm Ethan massive thank you to you your always went out there giving massive value to anyone everyone I talked to so thanks again any other parting words no thank you David’s been amazing and really really love what you guys have done the clickfunnels like I said we use it every day so we are forever grateful to you all right Ethan we’ll talk to you real soon but yeah all right but you know one of the things that means a ton to me is the personal reviews that you guys leave on iTunes you wouldn’t mind going out rate this show let me know how I’m doing just go to iTunes click on the episode and rate it leave a comment I read all the comments I appreciate all the stars and everything when you already left farming I can really appreciate it and it’s my way of finding out how I’m doing so if you don’t mind I’d really appreciate it and again thank you so much for all that you guys do have a great day

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Messenger Tactics And Why You Can’t Use AI… Yet – Ethan Sigmon – FHR #203

Messenger Tactics And Why You Can’t Use AI… Yet – Ethan Sigmon – FHR #203


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