– Funnel Hacker Radio Podcast
Kim Doyal is “The WordPress Chick” Plus a whole lot more. As an entrepreneur who has been creating content for over 10 years she knows what it takes to create content that engages and captivates an audience. She reveals her 4 secrets to being able to create amazing content.
welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales dominate their market and how you can get those same results here is your host Dave Woodward welcome back everybody and welcome to funnel hacker radio I’m your host Dave Woodard and today I am so excited I wish actually you guys have heard the conversation before this recording I want introduce to you guys Kim Doyle you probably have known her as the WordPress chick but most importantly she is an amazing market or podcaster she’s anywhere everywhere and is just crushing it it has been for a very very long time so Kim welcome to the show welcome Dave I’m totally good about art that intro so thank you no I’m just so excited to have you on this is it’s such an honor for me to have just to spend time talking to you with you because you’ve been doing stuff for a real long time and we were joking around about well you know what persistence is what out here what it is the fact is Kim you’ve got such a great reputation in this industry and I just love having people like yourself on our show I was talking with someone the ocular digger Dave why in the world are you going to have the WordPress chick on a ClickFunnels™ podcast why would you do that and I’m like because she’s the best in the business and I love having the best on our show but most important that is we obviously do a lot with WordPress from blogging standpoint you and I were just talking about new marketing secrets and some of the stuff that we’re doing on our site and I just thought you know what I just needed to get you on sale so Kim thank you so much and anything else you want to add to the introduction before we just dive right into this stuff no that totally made my day oh I’m like sitting here with like the you know beaming grin on my face so thank you and for what it’s worth I do use ClickFunnels™ and I’ve jumped in I jumped out I’ve jumped in and we can get into that but yeah expert secrets has converted me like a little bit of a nut so we’re good well let me talk about the thing you and I were just offline talking about that was the importance of content and I know you do a ton of content everything from blogs to podcast I mean you’re you produce a lot of content help people understand why you do it and more importantly how you actually do it that’s it yeah absolutely and you know you know what I’ll tell you Dave to start that off to is that I when I started first of all with WordPress chick I just fell in love and it was a good domain name for what that’s worth like nine years ago there was no strategy even with my podcast I was like I needed to have more fun and pull moles more of me into it because I felt like with WordPress I kind of got stuck and that’s how to do this how to do that and that kind of content has its place but I think things have shifted this space has matured and people really want to connect up that relational level and I had you know I’ve kind of come back to fundamentals I say over the last year and a half where this content has become like I can produce and write consistently and I sort of live by this mantra of everything as content and you know it was I had done sort of some high ticket masterminds and I was doing you know podcasting done-for-you services and all this but but the consistent kind of kicker for me was when I launched the podcast because you have to be consistent and it was it just kept going and going and and the big thing for that was the relationships that came out of it so with content you know it’s not always tangible you can’t necessarily put your hands on it with traffic and stuff and it’s that sort of compound effect right that eventually all of a sudden it’s like wow I got this many visits and then it starts doubling and tripling because it all starts adding up and the content piece it was truly because the podcast because as soon as I started showing up as myself I write like I talked I people hear like Kim isms and you know they hear it and so it’s just that’s where I was getting bigger results and so then I started doing this I’m not sure if you probably aren’t familiar with been settled does this daily well right okay so I love Ben and I watched what he did for probably a year before he became an email player subscriber and I thought okay Kim this is outside of my comfort zone I would do like that once or twice a month newsletter and I’m like I know that this stuff works and it resonates with me I open his emails I like the story piece and so that I implemented that a year ago and it’s probably the second best thing I’ve done outside of the podcast because I started paying attention to headlines and copy and editing more it’s like I’ve really gone back to mastering core direct response marketing principles and from that my confidence is built so now I I you know some content doesn’t hit and that’s okay I’m still going to produce it but you only learned through the doing and so like here’s a great example I did a story one time or an email my son was coming up the stairs my kids are like 20 and 16 and he was carrying his breakfast on a plate and I hear this huge crash and I was like dude you all right he’s like I knew that was going to happen I was telling myself don’t drop your breakfast don’t drop your breakfast so I took that story and I totally use it for an email because how many times we do that in our business we don’t think something’s going to work and so we get this story going in our head and you know I really believe setting intentions and thoughts are things and stuff and so I take all these dumb experiences in my life and I can twist it into a story and I just get feedback I get probably one or two responses almost every day on my emails and so then I take those and I write them as a blog post and then I go share them and so the whole content piece you only get better through the doing and it takes time but it’s been kind of an awesome journey I love that I you know we were talking about you a video recording stuff I I wish I had your ability to write I really do I’ve just for me it’s just easier to grab a camera and we just kind of shoot stuff and see let someone else edit make it pretty and stuff but I think the part that I love is how you refer to the fact that everything is content and how important it is for you to find stories in your daily life it kind of goes back to you know the whole Seinfeld episodes of the whole Sheila based on on all this craziness but for I know for me as those are the most engaging types of podcasts the most engaging types of blogs the most engaged types of emails is when that story is something that’s a part of my daily life and it just resonates so well so I love love how you do that thank you and you don’t want to go look at like the first post on the WordPress chick I was like because I’m like that was totally a robot who wrote that like who well there’s no personality there’s no you know and so it’s taken consistent time and you know it’s funny Dave like with the stuff that’s easier so like video for me I can do screencast yesterday but I’ve always had this hang-up about getting on camera I’m not happy with the way I look this or that or whatever and so I’m like Kim you got to just show up girl like it’s you you preach this you talk about it and so this was so outside of my comfort zone so I told you like I’ve been bitching on experts secrets it’s calm secret is great but I’ve been diving into this how do you craft a story that pulls people in so in doing that work which is all kind of behind the scenes because you got to take notes and you got it you know write out 50 headlines before something clicks or the magic starts happening so one of my favorite things during the summer is to float and read I got pulled some like I float in I read and so I was like well screw it I’m gonna do a video about this epiphany because of reading the book from the pole right mind you it was kind of like chest up I was like I’m going to be me I’m gonna be real and it’s relatable right so it’s like we get in our heads and for you know a lot of people I’d like to write I’m like I’m not I never thought I was a bad writer but it was never like I want to do this and now I have so much fun weaving these stories together but you know so I think with any piece of content it’s you just you learn through the doing and you get better at it to the doing I love that I totally I completely agree with you guys I feel the same way as far as video goes most my videos might feel me somebody else because I you know it’s here I get real personally I’m the oldest guy in the office basically by easily 10-15 years ago everyone in his office is over 30 years old and I’m like we’ve got all of our developers in here and they’re in the 30s and my oh my gosh so I talked with my wife outdated day I’m like you know Smith I feel like I’m just like the grandpa types at the same time she’s like you know what they gotta get over that and I’m like I know but I do so you know I’m losing my hair it’s going gray whatever it is we’re and a hat all the time it’s like date just you just have to embrace your age and everything else and uses experience I’m like I hear what you’re saying but it’s not what I want to do sweetheart so because I understand that aspect yeah and I think we’re probably I’m in you know I just turned 47 so it’s like you know and sitting here I’m like I’ve been at this for nine years and I kid you not I really feel like it was the last year-and-a-half that it was like I get it now I know exactly what I’m supposed to do and I mean I’ve gotten rid of service work in my business I’m like you Kim you’re supposed to show up you need to do your thing and you know so it’s it’s all those things and so I mean for what it’s worth they like you you go toe to toe at the energy level for those guys because of all those videos like I don’t know that anybody goes toe to toe with Russell’s energy but we have a lot of fun that’s for sure and I appreciate that give thanks well I know when we’re taking a look at yet one of the things you and I were just talking about before we got on and that was a product that you’re you’re working on which is lead survey type of app and I want to spend a little bit time because it’s the transition from content to lead surveys and connecting and communicating with people you don’t want to just kind of talk a little bit about what you’re doing and why you’re doing it and the impact it’s having on your business yeah absolutely um so I’m sort of I’ve done a lot of content around tools and plugins and all that because I love to play right and I loved the idea of a SAS product I’ve tried I tried plugins when I say I’ve tried them let me tell you that I’ve had developers create them so that I could try in but the thing that’s always been interesting with me is is the WordPress basis tough people don’t want to spend the money marketers will spend the money because they will measure the return so I came across this site and it was like you know you don’t want to do something just to do it right and so I’d come across a site and the opt-in was this simple like 3/4 step little modal like it was a pop-up and it was steps of a survey and it was like hey you know before I give you the thing it was what is what how do you describe yourself blogger podcaster market or whatever and so it went through that was how big is your list and what social channels are you on and it was like this huge light bulb went off because I was like this is brilliant now he knows XYZ about me and he can send me content specific based on how I’ve responded here and I wasn’t put off by it you know it was it was easier than doing a quiz I mean I didn’t have to think I was just like ok yep yep yep and then I got my download and I thought oh my god so I connected with a developer through my podcast like a year and a half ago and we had kind of been playing with what’s let’s do a plugin and I just was really 10 again wordpress has a special place in my heart but I get really frustrated when people don’t grasp how much time and energy goes into supporting I did you know I’d say I’m like I have a very clear understanding about that support element yes thank you yeah well and I just I wonder when people get like really frustrated and like would you expect somebody to fix your car for free like why what why would you die I think I’m fine you know so that’s my favorite pastime is to do like real life analogies with online because there’s such a disconnect but anyway so I said to Michael what about a web app and so we came up with lead surveys and the point of this is to you get to create you know and they’re simple like we’re kind of using Google material design which I really wasn’t familiar with but the point again is that you’ll be able to customize a simple survey to gather data and then there will be conditional logic and retargeting based on how your subscribers answer those questions that’s probably the simplest way to do it and really my whole thing was you need to know who’s on your list like I’ve sent out surveys to my audience and you know if you get this like tiny 1% of people who maybe take the time to respond and you still don’t really know what they want so like I’m thinking about this for ecommerce like how magical would it be if you went to a site it was like hey are you here for the shoot I writing are you here for women’s shoes or men’s shoes and you’re like women’s shoes and oh you want look at sandals or boots and then the next time you go back it’s like hey Kim last time you were here you said you’re looking for women’s sandals did you see what’s on sale so you know again I’m my partner I would probably want to punch me because we’ve got like version zero and then there’s you know stuff coming down the pipeline but I think marketing is really going towards this personalization whether it’s content or the messaging beyond sort of the hi Kim in an email I totally totally agree with you on that it’s a we spent a ton of time back we’re joking around about that we have all of our developers here in the office today all week long because we’re looking at trying to do a similar type of thing with ClickFunnels™ as far as making the onboarding experience more custom and it’s managed I’m amazed at when you’re talking about it so logic tree there’s a ton a ton of stuff it goes into a logic tree and it was funny because we were sitting at gosh was I don’t 10:30 last night we’re all in the office and going through and John parks and Russell were kind of come up with some of the logic and then Todd basically the other co-founder puts on us comes in it goes guys you’re doing it completely backwards we’re like what do you mean he goes well so you guys are writing it as logic from the perspective of person going through the process as a developer I’ve got to do logic from the backend so everything you have on this page actually should be on this other page they said it was just like are you serious and when you’re working with the developer I mean logic is to me it’s almost like a misnomer I have an oxy morning is just the opposite of what you think logic is well it is and then it’s like you have to plan for features at stage zero that might be down the road at Stage five right yeah like it’s been this whole Oh like understanding that every time something loads that’s a call to the server there’s a cause there’s this and there’s that and so like me as the content person the marketer you know that’s really where I’m like this is how what I want he’s like nice Theory cam you know and it soaks but the other thing is like you know it’s funny because with like be onboarding I’ve become you know diving into every single like free beta assassin I can to pay attention to how people do that and what resonates with me because I also want to be able to log in like right with ClickFunnels™ you log in you can have a follow up quickly I want somebody to be able to deploy a lead survey in like ten minutes you don’t necessarily have to know what to do with the data from day one but that’s where I’m going to come in because you know again I swear day by I just been obsessed with how with the expert secrets and getting I was looking at you know what and forget technology piece right but but like what is the difference between were say click bundles and leadpages like leadpages is a tool click funnels is this way of life there’s this people buy in they want to feel like they belong to something so it’s like how do you craft that right so it’s been fascinating to step back and figure out you know who who do we want to help and how does this make a difference in their business and then their lives is up and and I’m not saying I haven’t done that with the WordPress ship but I just feel like this light bulb went off and content is that sort of missing piece because you don’t you get data for free content you’re going to get a ton of data the more content you put out the more information you’re going to get back totally there yeah sorry I was like did I lose you sir you know I was like I’ve actually taken notes on this because I’ve it’s one thing I’m so I am such a huge believer in is the importance of people understanding that when you’re creating that kind of content that it’s amazing to me as far as the data and the data and the feedback that you get back you you made mentioned earlier as far as yeah you know I send out an email get one or two responses and that becomes my blog post and I think I’ve because we’ve done that with I did a 30 day Facebook live challenge and it was amazing to me first day I did it honestly my mom didn’t even show up I mean there’s nobody chosen Facebook left and but yet over time it was crazy where all of a sudden you started getting two or three or four people and now I get I don’t have a huge Facebook following but it’s been fascinating for me to see the feedback that I’ve gotten and it’s one thing I actually do enjoy about Facebook is you’ll have you know 300 views and only four or five comments but it’s amazing how those four or five comments really can almost direct like what you referring to as far as what your next content piece is going to be based on the comments in the feedback that you received and so I love what you’re referring to with regard to the surveys and how that is such an important part of a person’s business and so I guess as people as you’re listening to this I hope you understand first of all be out there creating content like crazy but then second of all do things that you can actually use that content for in a way to segment your list and again I know you’ve got lead surveys coming out in October or sometime there abouts and will integrate with click files all that kind of cool stuff but I think the part I really I love about what you’ve you’ve come from literally years of doing content and now you’re taking all this and you’re assimilating this content in a way that has allowed people to actually be more interactive with you in your marketing in your approach I think it’s just brilliant the way you’ve done it well thank you and you know what’s funny so with so with the WordPress chicks I I step back and and I decided okay no more service work and you know somebody attached to this is maybe this is egotistical are just you’re going to turn people off but they’re like oh you know you could do like a podcast network and create shows I’m like I want to be the star not the producer I’m like it’s been more of my personality but it was so that was part of why I was like okay you know let’s let’s stop the sales I mean the service work and I thought alright WordPress chick is sort of my foundation the hub right I do content I’ve got an audience I’ve got a list they’re all my social channels people know me through that but as my business has changed so my list and my you know and they’ve grown left come in whatever so I thought okay in terms of monetizing the site you know I’ve totally stayed away from any sort of membership or continuity because I don’t I didn’t want to do how to do this with WordPress every month and how to do that with WordPress every month and so you know especially I mean there’s tons of great free content and I’m not saying that doesn’t mean you can’t do it paid it might be free you can still do it but but I thought I love love love content and so I started I’ve got content creators it’s a Facebook group and it’s all about content it’s all about content and so taking this and then I’ll shift I’ll turn that into you know recurring revenue to the WordPress chick I totally don’t know what exactly what that looks like but I can talk about content till I’m blue in the face and so a lot of people especially from the WordPress space you know avoided it or they did all the service work them like you guys at the end of the day you’re still chasing every new project then it’s like build the foundation that pulls people back to you and its content it’s totally content I love that so again it kind of comes just natural for you if you were to give people you know a couple of tips as far as the best way of creating content what would you tell them the first one is just show up and I’m sorry if that’s not very tangible but you baby step your way into it and again it’s become much more natural to me after you know it’s nine years in and the first few years it was I overthought it that’s the biggest thing I would say don’t overthink it you know when you mentioned Gary Vee earlier and I have this love-hate relationship and because I have a house I have well you know it’s funny and I met him in Vegas I came out of an elevator and it was just me and it was him and I was like Gary me he was he’s awesome he took a selfie with me I forgot my phone he emailed it to me but it’s like if you can pay attention to what he’s doing I mean he documents everything so that’s that’s the easiest thing to do is document what you’re doing share the journey you know you’re talking about Facebook life so when this whole messenger bot thing came out I was like oh I’m gonna test it and I thought let’s test it do a live stream create content around the test and I and I ran it through the WordPress trick page and they blew me away because I can get more people on a live stream than a webinar not that I’m going to stop doing the other one but and but it was crazy so I I just tested this thing live I said here’s why I’m doing this we have little lead survey stickers I’m like you know and so I created content around that and then you just pull that in as a post in a video and you pull the comments in and this is my thoughts on messenger it wasn’t it was nothing other than I’m going to try this I’m going to share with you guys what I’m doing so really that is the easiest thing to do because you’ll find out what your audience wants most the other thing you know be willing to be vulnerable and this is that sort of baby step piece right I don’t think you assume everyone knows your story and I don’t know if you knew this not that so I was widowed 14 years ago and my kids were little there were six and two I was working full-time and that’s why I started my business I’m like there’s got to be a better way to do this I need to be home for the kids and I’ve always kind of had this entrepreneurial bent like I owned a scrapbook store and a bunch of stuff and so the anniversary of my husband’s passing was May 7th of this year and I woke up and it wasn’t the first thing on my mind and I felt such gratitude for that and that might sound strange but like you know probably the first 10 years it’s like we had to celebrate it and honor it and obviously you know I’ve got my kids he’s a huge part of our life and I miss him every day however to know that I’ve come to the other side of this and to to be able to wake up and be like it’s a good day and so I wrote an email to my list and it was just a personal message of hope in loving memory and a personal message of hope and the story was just this is what it and I assumed today that everybody knew this cuz I talked about it before and I just said my point in sharing this with you guys is your dreams are worth pursuing you stick with it and thank you for being on this journey with me and for you know knowing that I’ve gone from dryness and trying that and try that the people there a lot of people have stuck with me and and so then I took that email and I did a blog post Dave that was the highest traffic day to my site in months I think I got like 300 shares that day and it was a Sunday but I and I literally just took the email because I was like I was just inspired to write it and so you don’t know you have to be willing to take a risk and like I said I mean I really baby step to my way into the vulnerability there’s stuff that I thought I would never share out loud on a podcast but I’ve gotten more comfortable and I’ve gotten more comfortable and I’ve gotten validation that my audience connects with me more and I love that and again I was just research about the podcast I saw that it sparked your story I hadn’t heard that before and I appreciate you sharing that bringing that up because that vulnerability is I think it’s the hardest part I was talking with a mentor coach I met I’ve done a lot of personal development type of stuff with him that was some of her biggest and bikes was you know David just have to be willing to share more and I’m like I don’t know if I really want to and then the other things I was said you know what I don’t know if people even really want to hear that side and she was like they really do that’s the part they really do want to hear is that vulnerable side of you and and obviously there’s a thin line as far as what you share and how you share and all that kind of stuff but I think that’s probably the part I’ve noticed as we’ve been doing a lot of this video as you mention as far as you know subtle hacker TV and all this kind of stuff some of it is all the fun stuff is easy that’s not volatile at all but the brilliant vulnerable type of stuff it’s at times almost a little painful and yet it’s the part that people really want to hear they want to connect with you I kind you know we talk we joke around about all the time as far as you know people want to work with those people who they know like and trust and that like and trust really comes from the knowledge of of feeling that vulnerability so I really appreciate your sharing that now absolutely and you know what it’s interning me to date I was like because you also don’t want to use your story-like times it’s like am i using this and it’s like but it is you know I wouldn’t hesitate to share that it’s taken me this long or that this failed or whatever so it’s like why you know it kind of goes back to that you have a responsibility to share things with your audience if it’s going to help them connect more you know and for what it’s worth like I watched the the virtual book tour and when the internet kept crashing on you guys it was a I felt that pain right but but so here’s like we had done I did a pre-sale webinar I was a livestream for lead surveys well be live didn’t want to work that right and so and I had had all these people register for it because I was trying to figure out how to do that and it kind of threw me off my game like I’m not shy I like doing the stuff but it was just like uh and I just it threw me off and that afternoon I was weepy and I was like girl you need to go watch some TV you’re going to unplug you’re going to look at this with new eyes tomorrow and then I shared in an email the next day I’m like that was a total cluster it wasn’t how I wanted it to go and back to the drawing board and you know it is like being able to say that to people because when all you see is well they had a six-figure launch and they have this and they have that it you just it feels so so far away from where you are sometimes oh I totally reared you on that I see I think people they don’t understand the overnight success that took you know 15 years to make and it’s just one of those crazy things and I think I hope people understand really kind of connect with that and realize you know the only way you get to where you are is kind of like what you were talking about first of all you have to show up and a lot of times that’s showing up showing up and it’s kind of lonely at first but yeah Cricut sometimes yeah but as you’re able to as you’re able to connect with your audience and as you do become more vulnerable people they want to know that hey you know what it’s it’s okay and I think sometimes that vulnerability provides a lot of hope to other people and I think that’s why it’s so important to share that I do you know and with that on the flip side of that I think people are really needed to share your wins then right don’t know you know the the whole whole like the whole you know do the work excuse me hair loss my work but like that screaming it’s like I did this a hashtag litter it was esta hustle because and I think I have a lot of that it’s alright I think it’s just probably the age I’m at in my life and doesn’t mean I don’t work like I will go crazy when I’m inspired and then I crash so I’m not saying I don’t hustle but you got to do what feels right which is what Gary B says don’t try to be like me Oh know who you are and do your thing and so I think it’s really when people know I’ve been working on this or you know I have been re crafting the promo for lead surveys to do another webinar for like two weeks now because I’m working through the book and and sitting there going wait a minute we’re not solving a problem of segmenting or it’s who’s on my list like how can I talk to them you know so it was really getting into that messaging and before I would look at it like okay well this is what we do and this the format the technical pieces were all there it’s like you got to do the mind stuff can oh I love it what Tim is we try to get close to wrapping things up what would be any other suggestions or tips and tricks you recommend people do when they’re trying to become more vulnerable or creating more content yeah first of all again document I think that’s the easiest thing to do and it sounds so all this stuff sounds too old-school but if you master the fundamentals and you take the time to get better at writing to get better at producing to get better at email head whatever it is right if that stuff starts paying off you know and then lastly it’s that relationship piece you know it’s like it’s very easy to get to be busy right you’ve got work to do but I’ve really started doing a lot of like hey let’s hop on skype you know and time is tight I totally get that but if there’s somebody out there you know that I can share their story and and and say hey these are cool people that are doing cool things they may not be an influencer you know all of a sudden you just start creating solid tangible relationships with people and you don’t know where they’re going to lead to but it’s just take the time to have those conversations that is part of doing the work too I love welcome how do people get ahold of you what’s the easiest way of reaching out and get the best yeah the best place is the WP chick and the podcast is there everything is there most other than Facebook I think most of my profiles are Kim Doyle when it’s DOI al like Royal oil well Kim tell me what as far as lead surveys X you’re expecting that October is that kind of one yeah so you know I’ll be doing some more priests I want some founders in so that we can do you know I want the feedback and I’m going to do the one-on-one sort of onboarding and that kind of stuff but October you know in its lead surveys I oh you could check it out and you know I’m totally transparent guys like this is everything we’ve done I’m sharing through the content so I started writing blog posts for that months ago so everything is there still navigating our way through it um I’m really really excited though awesome well Kim I’ve thank you so much for spending time with me today you’re amazing I love having you on again I look forward to your success I can’t wait to catch up with you again real soon thanks so much for having me Dave this is great thanks for listening to funnel hacker radio podcast if you’d like to be notified anytime we release a new episode just subscribe over at Donal hacker radio comm in addition to that we’d love to send you a free gift you can find that free gift at faunal hacker radio comm forward slash retrial one last thing is we love giving away cars so if you like access to a free dream car all you have to do is go to frontal hacker radio comm forward slash dream car and you’ll get all the details thanks again for listening
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-The importance of taking action.
-Where marketing is heading to.
“You only learn from doing and get better from the doing.”
Kim Doyal, How To Create Engaging and Captivating Content
Kim Doyal, How To Create Engaging and Captivating Content